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R.I.P. Hurricane

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Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:18:00 - [1] bah it was not a monster of a ship brutix was still doing a bit more damage and it was defence bonus vs 1 more low slot the dps nerf on the hurricane is not that bad but i don't like how it was done... the ship need to have 7 turrets to be competitive with arty setup and it lose also a bit of versatility... imo a 7/0 high (as the harbringer) or a 7/1 with lower dronebay was a better solution and i really don't understande the pg nerf, it had same pg as the harbringer and they shared basically same fittings, have not looked at it but that was really unnecessary
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.16 18:43:00 - [2] Edited by: Ath Amon on 16/11/2006 18:48:17 Originally by: Max Teranous Guys, it was simply too good before. It's a **** nice ship still, but now it doesn't outdamage a T2 Command ship! I mean really. I know i'll still be taking it for a spin. It is still superior to the Muninn & Cyclone easily. too good? why? brutix had still a bit better dps (and similar tank) harbringer had better damage over 7km and in close range it had a nos as damage tradeoff... yup it was so overpowered... and as we are doing comparsion with crap ships we can compare it even to the reaper... better than muninn and cyclone? they are quite crappy... let's make even hurricane crap... ah yes i forgot that minmatar are supposed to fly crappy ships
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.16 19:18:00 - [3] Edited by: Ath Amon on 16/11/2006 19:25:02 Edited by: Ath Amon on 16/11/2006 19:18:38 Originally by: Khavi Vetali Originally by: Ath Amon brutix had still a bit better dps (and similar tank) No, in order to have a similar tank to a Hurricane the Brutix fits lowest tier guns, and then it does less damage. If a brutix is doing more damage than a hurricane it has significantly less tank. Take a look at the brutix pg, it's lower than all the tier 2 bc's. 220 II's use almost exactly the same pg as electron II's (5 pg difference). The brutix can not tank as well as the hurricane and retain similar dps. Course, it's a moot point now that you've lost a turret. Although I'm pretty sure you still do better damage than a brutix with electrons. brutix was doing better damage than old hurricane with ions... and yup, if you go more passive with 1600mm then hurr tanks better, if you go more with res and armor rep they are quite close ahhh and just checked with electrons... the dps difference was not that big... they where pretty close
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.16 19:37:00 - [4] Edited by: Ath Amon on 16/11/2006 19:50:22 Edited by: Ath Amon on 16/11/2006 19:40:48 here, this is the prenerf hurricane with 220mm compared to brutix with electrons... as you can see except for the long range ammo (that for midsize is not that better than T1) there is not much difference... but OMG NERF THE HURR!!!111 IS SO OVERPOWERED!!!!11 it really needed to get nerfed and again, pre nerf hur vs electron brutix and consider that hur is supposed to be pure damage dealer and have 2 slots more than the brutix... they got similar dps and similar tank...
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.16 19:51:00 - [5] Edited by: Ath Amon on 16/11/2006 19:52:35 Originally by: Khavi Vetali Originally by: Ath Amon but OMG NERF THE HURR!!!111 IS SO OVERPOWERED!!!!1 Not to be picky, but you really f'd up that graph. right, forgot to add damage mods to T2 ammos... corrected the graph, reposted it, corrected the old link and reposting it here Hurr so uber!!!!1111
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:52:00 - [6] i think the point is that hurricane before the "rebalance" was so uber for a minnie ship... now is fine, it get outdps and outcapped by the harbringer, outdamaged by both brutix (T1 gang ship) and myrmidon... what a luck that the drake was nerfed into oblivion
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.16 22:51:00 - [7] Edited by: Ath Amon on 16/11/2006 22:51:43 i don't agree that hurricane was overpowered, compared it to the harbringer left and right and they seemed quite balanced to me hurr was doing a bit more dps under 7km and was faster while the harbringer had good dps up to 25-30km and and better base tank as said to me it seem balanced and in line with race "stats" they where very similar ships with similar fitting too
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.17 00:29:00 - [8] with kali minnies will be crappy at long range... bye bye fleetpest vagabond is a very good solo ship, but i will not call it the best hac... in gangs is not that great... also i'm quite curious to see it with kali... it could become way stronger or quite useless...
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.17 11:16:00 - [9] Edited by: Ath Amon on 17/11/2006 11:18:13 no the ship is not broken but A) the nerf was mage in the wrong way: if dps was really too high (imo it was not the case) you can reduce it with other means than removing a turret (read drones or ham) B) and more important the motivations behind the nerf where laughtable at best you can't say that the ship melts enemies in no time when there are ships in the same class that do more damge... expecially when one of the ship is a dedicated ganker and the other one have gang modules capabilities you also can't say that when there is a ship that with 1 less gun do around 15% less damage under 7km but have an optimal of 20km i had really the impression that this was a nerf because people liked it... look people like the hurricane, it means it is too good let's nerf it... or maybe because someone at fanfest convinced the developer that it was umbalanced? (if this is really the case is really a problem)
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.17 12:52:00 - [10] Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux So in summary: Minmatar: OMGOHNOES we still outdamage everything but Harbinger at 5km+ and still have best DPS at point blank but now we suck cos we have to use missiles instead of the turret NOOOOO!! brutix have and had better dps... nerf the brutix?
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.17 14:34:00 - [11] Edited by: Ath Amon on 17/11/2006 14:38:33 noticed that the brutix was using the electron and not ion vs 220mm? noticed that it was the old hurricane with 7 guns/1 ham? noticed that the brutix have a tank bonus? noticed that brutix is T1 and that T2 BCs are supposed to be better in combat than T1 ones as they get (generally) 2 more slots? noticed that the brutix is a ship designed to use gangs modules while the hurricane is a pure dps one? and still my point was that brutix was able to outdps the hurricane... if hurricane dps was too high to "melt other ships before they can say ohhh look at that pretty ship" (sort of that?) this is not valid for the brutix?
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.17 14:53:00 - [12] Edited by: Ath Amon on 17/11/2006 14:55:25 if even new BCs can use gang modules then is a bit different as they share the same role, but also open new problems as most T1 BCs becomes totally obsolete (cept the brutix) comparing cyc and hurricane there is no game, hurr have better tank and way better dps... so to me it made sense than T1 where gang support while T2 where "combat" bcs, expecially considering their 2 more slots (that are a lot) are you sure they also share the same role? also a thing that i don't like is that with T1 BCs gallente got their "uber" dpsmobile while other races got crap... and now that T2 BCs came out and are supposed to be better than T1 here that they need to get nerfed cause brutix stats and again more than the nerf itself what makes me mad is how and why it was done
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.17 16:08:00 - [13] if missiles are primary weapon for minnies then why their missile BS have 4/4 split weapons and not a 6/2 as the raven? mmmmmmmm
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.17 16:30:00 - [14] /cought ehm phoon is second missile bs because there are just 2 missile BS or better 1 and half also to have missiles as second weapon should not mean that all minnie ships should get a split weapon system or have less turrets... but that there should be some turret boats and some missile boats... gallente to do an example have blasterboats and droneboats... not a split mix of them
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.19 02:33:00 - [15] Originally by: Patch86 Originally by: Ath Amon gallente to do an example have blasterboats and droneboats... not a split mix of them Have you tried looking at the DPS of a Mega if you remove it's 5 Heavy Drones? Drones are sort of required if you plan on flying Gallente- they're on every ship, and every ship is balanced with the assumption you're using them. If you havn't trained up a large amount of Drone SP in addition to your Hybrid SP, you'll be flying a mighty sub-par ship. And the Domi has a Drone bonus and a Turret bonus; its a split bonus between its two main weapon systems, both of which are required for it to match the other BS in DPS - omgh4x! Typhoon probably does have it worst of the whole bunch, but its far from a Minmatar-only sort of thing. almost all bs can fit 5 heavy to boost their dps, and domi bonuses permit to do good damage just with drones (so the popular nosage boat) these ships are at top of dps scale using 2 different type of weapons as primary... while the phoon (as you say) is at the bottom using split weapon system... an exotic example for what i mean with split droneweapon can be a bs with 50 bay and drone bonus and 6 turrets with some tracking bonus... a ship that can't use the weapons, and the bonuses it have at its best.... (as the phoon and some other minnie ships) and about the post above me... is interesting as it seem the promoter of hurricane nerfage was a player at fanfest... not to say all the whinage from amarr guys sayng that hurricane was overpowered compared to harbringer while the ship imo where quite similar and quite balanced... things like... it tank better cause it have better fitting (1pg difference) or... it otdamage the harbringer at any range... when is clear that harbringer do better damage from 7 to 20km... comparsion of the 2 ships with hurricane using 8 high slots and not taking in account the nos on the harbringer... maybe i'm not objective... but maybe they where not very objective too...

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